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Oh no it's Rider Aids

 
MotoMarc1 MotoMarc1
User | Posts: 133 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 08/30/11
10:55 AM

I've got to admit as a rider who enjoys riding a bike knowing his skills are what make the bike do what he wants I'm not sold on Rider Aids. While I understand the theory and purpose of having such rider aid technology and realize that just as these technologies exist on automobiles to help improve the safety for drivers and now motorcyclists. I like many other riders enjoy the pure excitement you get from riding motorcycles. In recent articles on SportRider and other magazines there appears to be more sportbikes that include the rider aids dejour.

While I'm not a technophob by any means. I appreciate improvements on bikes such as fuel injection, brakes, slipper clutches, suspension and chassis have gotten better. And as a rider I appreciate those improvements as well as the leaps in tire technology as well.

However, with the current addition of electronic riding aids I think it's gone too far. While traction control, launch control, wheelie control and ABS may help newbies and may help video game racers at top levels gain an edge on their competition I enjoy bikes that I know I control not some computer chip. So in that respect it’s a shame to see electronic aids becoming standard on bikes. But I understand trends and technology as they are we as consumers don’t have much choice if that’s what the factories perceive that everyone wants. Other problems with too much technology include the more potential for failure and dependence on these riding aids hence reduction in actual rider skill. My hope as we see more and more rider aids on bikes (especially sportbikes) is that the rider has the ability to minimize them and the ability to turn them off if you so wish.  

 
kento1 kento1
Administrator | Posts: 981 | Joined: 09/07
Posted: 08/30/11
03:39 PM

Nearly all of the traction control systems available have an "off" option. Most of the bikes that come with ABS also have a standard version available without ABS. The majority of the OEMs know that most motorcyclists want choice when it comes to these systems.

While I'm just as adamant (probably more so) than the next person about riders improving their skills, the problem is that the general public still considers motorcycling dangerous, and if we want the sport to grow in this country, the more newbie crashes/collisions we can prevent with ABS and traction control, the better in my opinion.

Of even more note, however, is how advanced today's systems are. Originally in the early days of ABS and traction control when the systems were still relatively primitive, I was like you and poo-pooed the idea of electronic rider aids because of that electronic dependence argument. However, after having experienced the latest systems, those fears of dependence on these aids don't really hold that much weight anymore. The reason is that the threshold of the latest ABS and TC systems (when set in the higher levels) are so high that most riders will never approach their activation point often enough to become "dependent" on them, and up until that point they can still learn about weight transfer and how the tire acts right at the point of lockup (without ending up on the ground if they make a mistake). And if they do happen to grab a handful of brake lever in some real panic situation, it will be there to hopefully save their bacon and keep them from becoming another statistic.

I for one know that if my bike was primarily used on the street (and especially for commuting), I wouldn't hesitate to go for the ABS model over the standard version. The reason is riding in the rain; there is no way a human in a wet brake pads/cold tire panic situation would be able to slow as quickly as a modern ABS-equipped bike.  

 
MotoMarc1 MotoMarc1
User | Posts: 133 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 08/31/11
08:25 AM

Kento while I agree with most of what your noted above I believe the strategy should be better or mandatory rider training methods not just hoping rider aid technology will help newbies and squid types save their hydes. Plus you note that these rider aids have improved to the point where riders won't be dependant on them. To some degree this maybe true but don't you think that some riders may start pushing beyond their limit with the false sense that the rider aids will save their butt.

I do agree with the your wet riding scenario for less experienced riders. While I'm no expert by any means I've developed my wet riding skills and they have served me well over the years, maybe a TC/ABS system would enhance those skills but not sure yet.  

 
kento1 kento1
Administrator | Posts: 981 | Joined: 09/07
Posted: 08/31/11
12:10 PM

I never said that the rider aid technology was the end-all, only that it's a useful tool to have. Of course proper rider training is the foundation of any skilled rider (I mentioned it at the beginning of the second paragraph).

It's easy to theorize that riders will just blatantly push beyond their limit because of a false sense of security provided by ABS or traction control, but the truth is that the vast majority won't because their survival instincts will cut in long before they approach the activation point of either ABS or traction control (when set in the higher levels). I've seen it happen time and again with both ABS and traction control. At Keith Code's California Superbike School, he has an outrigger-equipped bike to teach students how a bike reacts when it reaches the limit of braking/tire traction. I've watched students go through countless runs before they work up the courage to even approach front wheel lockup, and this is with outriggers to ensure that they won't fall. With regard to traction control, I've watched riders with skills that are above 90% of the riding population never activate a high-level traction control on the racetrack. Basically, those who are reckless enough to blatantly push beyond their limit with the false sense that electronic rider aids will save their bacon have a mentality that won't serve them well regardless of whether they've had proper training, electronic rider aids, or whatever type of bike they're riding.

I don't say this to demean your riding skills (because it applies to even the most skilled riders), but I can literally guarantee that in an unforeseen panic braking situation in the rain, modern ABS will allow you a degree of control that you would never have with a standard braking system, no matter how experienced you are.  

 
MotoMarc1 MotoMarc1
User | Posts: 133 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 09/01/11
07:31 AM

I leave it at we agree to disagree. But as long time reader of your magazine I appreciate and respect your opinion as you make fair and constructive comments about the bikes you test. Plus you have me at a disadvantage as I haven't had a chance to test ride any TC/ABS bikes so I'll take your word on this item until I get a chance to see for myself if these rider aids are truly helpful or just fluff. But in the meantime I'll continue to trust my own skills and abilities with an eye on improving them without the aid of a computer chip other than the one I call my brain. However, I'll keep an open mind.  

 
ducati800ss ducati800ss
User | Posts: 73 | Joined: 10/09
Posted: 09/01/11
10:59 AM

Rider assist devices like traction control and ABS are here to stay.
By improving safety in panic situations they are great additions, but they do not replace the advantage of skillful riding ability that prevents you from getting into trouble in the first place.
An inexperienced rider needs to understand that rider aids are not replacements for good riding habits and improved technique.
The best "rider aids" in my mind are the safety and performance courses offered by private companies and government agencies.
It would be great if the price of all new motorcycle sales included entry into a safety or performance riding school. All would benefit - the schools would have more students and riders would have some proper instruction after the sale.
I know that it would be logistically difficult to put all this together, but if riders were offered the opportunity to take advantage of proper instruction the ones who took advantage of the training would be better off, and the sport would benefit in terms of public image and rider safety.  
Ride Proud, Ride Safe, Have Fun.

 
kento1 kento1
Administrator | Posts: 981 | Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/01/11
03:04 PM

Of course ABS and traction control don't replace the advantage of having good riding skills...that's why they're called rider aids or rider assist devices, not "riding autopilot computers".  

For the novice rider, it's not so much actual riding ability that will keep them out of trouble (since they obviously don't have very much to begin with). It's actually proper judgment that will do the most at preventing them from putting themselves into a position where their meager riding skills won't be able to save them. While some semblance of riding skill is surely a necessary requirement, surviving in the real world of wayward automobile traffic and other road hazards requires the proper judgment to handle those situations correctly, whether it's avoiding them or approaching them with caution. That allows them to build up the experience-- seat time-- that will allow them to practice and hone their skills that will better serve them in an emergency. Muscle memory and instinctive reactions can't be learned overnight or in one or two riding schools.

Both Suzuki and Yamaha were offering free enrollment in riding schools with the purchase of a new sportbike as incentives at one time or another. We've found that a good portion of MSF basic RiderCourse classes in the metropolitan areas are so full that waiting lists are often a month or more long. But yes, finding a way to subsidize the enrollment fee would go a long way toward getting more riders the proper riding skill they'll need to survive.  

 
xbacksideslider xbacksideslider
User | Posts: 193 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 09/01/11
03:37 PM

MSF courses should include time on dirt bikes on dirt roads.  New riders cannot effectively experience the traction loss complex on pavement.  

 
ducati800ss ducati800ss
User | Posts: 73 | Joined: 10/09
Posted: 09/01/11
04:03 PM

Kento,

Riding ability also includes "proper judgment". It is a total package. One of the advantages of the MSF course is teaching beginners the types of common hazards that we motorcycle riders face and the inherent risks of poor judgement.
The other advantage of riding schools especially for beginners is by learning the proper technique they will develop good muscle memory from the start and reduce the risk of developing bad habits.  
Ride Proud, Ride Safe, Have Fun.

 
kento1 kento1
Administrator | Posts: 981 | Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/01/11
08:14 PM

xbacksideslider:
MSF courses should include time on dirt bikes on dirt roads.  New riders cannot effectively experience the traction loss complex on pavement.

The MSF actually has (or at least had a few years ago) some beginner courses that involved dirt bikes, but all of the curriculum was dirt, not combined.  

 
dclander dclander
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 12/11
Posted: 12/04/11
09:40 AM

Just picked up the Jan.2012 SP off the stand. I'm like a kid with a new toy every issue! Although I didn't get through it yet, I've made it as far As Kent's and Andrew's write ups, the Fire Back,and the GSX.I'm sure the riders aids will be a hot topic for time some to come with all the advances that are being achieved.The best we know is the best we've ridden. I have yet to ride a motorcycle with TC or ABS.  I've started riding starting and stopping off the front step @ 6 yrs of age,growing up I raced  TT and then flattrack with a little motoX here and there.Now at 55 years young, and riding thought that time, I must say that the best rider aid is seat time.With all the riding and early racing experience I had, nothing improved my skills better than when I started doing schools and track days 12 years ago. Now I help out as a control rider, and the smiles from ear to ear after a session are awesome! I'm sure the electronic riders aids are a great thing to have and might help get you out of a jam.  But so is experience and help-full instruction,so when a car is crossing into your side of the road coming around a bend your reactions are not panicked,you look where you want to go, and know how to put yourself there.(or any other unforeseen hazard)
 I hope to try out one of those new bikes some day,in the mean time I'll match my rpm when down shifting,use a steady smooth throttle hand and apply my brakes early and smooth. Thanks for the great magazine! Dan  

 
xbacksideslider xbacksideslider
User | Posts: 193 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/05/11
04:51 PM

It seems obvious to me, so I have to wonder "Why doesn't the MSF curriculum include some slipping and sliding on dirt roads?  Maybe liability? that is, it is too likely that students will fall down and hurt themselves? but if so, wouldn't it be better to provide students with the experience of losing traction?

As for the new issue, well done, and yes, electronic aids can't do it all, yet.  Without doubt they improve the package, and they are here to stay.  

 
MotoMarc1 MotoMarc1
User | Posts: 133 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 12/15/11
09:00 PM

dclander:
Just picked up the Jan.2012 SP off the stand. I'm like a kid with a new toy every issue! Although I didn't get through it yet, I've made it as far As Kent's and Andrew's write ups, the Fire Back,and the GSX.I'm sure the riders aids will be a hot topic for time some to come with all the advances that are being achieved.The best we know is the best we've ridden. I have yet to ride a motorcycle with TC or ABS.  I've started riding starting and stopping off the front step @ 6 yrs of age,growing up I raced  TT and then flattrack with a little motoX here and there.Now at 55 years young, and riding thought that time, I must say that the best rider aid is seat time.With all the riding and early racing experience I had, nothing improved my skills better than when I started doing schools and track days 12 years ago. Now I help out as a control rider, and the smiles from ear to ear after a session are awesome! I'm sure the electronic riders aids are a great thing to have and might help get you out of a jam.  But so is experience and help-full instruction,so when a car is crossing into your side of the road coming around a bend your reactions are not panicked,you look where you want to go, and know how to put yourself there.(or any other unforeseen hazard)
 I hope to try out one of those new bikes some day,in the mean time I'll match my rpm when down shifting,use a steady smooth throttle hand and apply my brakes early and smooth. Thanks for the great magazine! Dan


Dan, great points. I agree one should invest in improving your skill and experience regardless if you have a bike with or without TC/ABS. I trust my ability over technology and there is nothing wrong with that. Not saying I'm perfect, actually far from it,  but understanding that keeps me on my toes on wanting to improve.  

 

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