MotoGP going to 1000cc - Hurt or Help World Superbike?

There has been a lot of speculation that when MotoGp goes to 1000CC it will have negative effect on World Superbike.

I disagree. It seems to me that if one of the purposes of racing is to help manufacturers sell more bikes then the fact that both premier racing leagues will be running liter bikes will help liter bike sales in the long run.
It will also provide a more direct comparison between the racing leagues since both will be racing similar displacement bikes.
Perhaps more interest and will be generated in both MotoGp and World Superbike because of the MotoGP change.

What do you think?  
Ride Proud, Ride Safe, Have Fun.

Definitely won't hurt WSBK, as that series has already grown enough to stand on its own regardless of what MotoGP does. The fact that more manufacturers are involved in WSBK and the racing is closer has given it sufficient draw.

It will definitely help MotoGP, as the move to 800cc was a short-sighted knee-jerk reaction to the 200+ mph speeds at some tracks that Dorna (MotoGP organizers) thought was too dangerous back in the 990cc era. The lack of torque meant that corner speed was the key, and all development was directed toward that aim. With such high corner speeds (and the advent of traction control, which was a by-product of the lack of power), the chances for passing were minimal, leading to processional races.

If anything, it will help spur Bridgestone to increase its development, as the increased power will certainly stress tires more, and the company won't want to be upstaged by Pirelli.  

There is the thought that they could end up merging, so MotoGP is going back to 1,000cc's. I don't know how true that is, but the motorcycle industry was hit pretty hard by the economy collapse. Running all those bikes is expensive, and these guys are going to completely adjust their approach to using racing to advertise. Look at the riders they're sending out in MotoGP to test the bikes and the limits they've placed on the actual racers. It's a lot cheaper to send a test rider out flying him coach and putting him up in a Motel 8 than Rossi, and all the treatment he gets. Every company has reeled their spending in a little.  
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Snoogans.

Both Paolo Flammini (CEO of InFront Motorsports, organizers of World Superbike) and Carmelo Ezpeleta (CEO of Dorna, organizers of MotoGP) have said that there is no way the two series will merge.  

kento1:
Both Paolo Flammini (CEO of InFront Motorsports, organizers of World Superbike) and Carmelo Ezpeleta (CEO of Dorna, organizers of MotoGP) have said that there is no way the two series will merge.

Never say never. I don't know if you're familiar with the NFL, but they say "no way" all the time and it can still end up happening. The same does happen with racing occasionally.  
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Snoogans.

The NFL doesn't have two headstrong rival corporations from different countries with tons of money and influence behind them. Both series are too successful on their own at this point to merge. Sure, anything can happen in five or ten years, but not in the immediate future.  

I agree that it is highly unlikely that the two competing leagues will merge.

The appeal of world superbike is that their bikes are the closest to "stock" of the two. This makes it similar to stock car racing like NASCAR, where the old adage of win on the weekend and sell on Monday can be applied. The average motorcycle sportbike enthusiast can relate better to world superbike.

It would be very difficult to merge leading edge MotoGP bikes with the more "stock" characteristics of "Superbike" and have a clear direction that the league would take.

To me the best thing that either league could do would be to make the racers and the bikes more accessible to the fans. This would generate greater loyalty and interest for the different manufacturers.  
Ride Proud, Ride Safe, Have Fun.

This is a great development.  

Manufacturers likely are going to think about the possibility of adapting existing production based engines to MotoGP.  Even if such adaptation is not immediately feasible, engineers working on future designs certainly will contemplate such adaptation.

Ducati and Aprilia appear to be doing this already.  

You're forgetting one thing, Kento: money. If there is no interest in putting a bike in Moto GP, there is no Moto GP. They're still unable to get any new bikes and teams interested, and WSBK had two new brands enter last year. I don't know what attendance is like, but if that and subscriptions to their site are down, they're not going to have any options. And you'd want to sell your product before it's worthless.

There is nothing that says it will happen, but there is always the possibility. The '12 bikes are being limited to no more than 4 cylinders, and they are making a bunch of changes that are going to be price friendly. If that doesn't start to get more companies interested in competing, or the existing companies to put more bikes on the grid, I don't know what else could happen.

The technology will come with or without Moto GP as we know it. The problem is spending a couple hundred thousand, or around or over five million dollars maintaining a bike. The top bike designers are the one's who design our street bikes, believe it or not. The ones making Moto GP bikes are trying to work their way to doing the production bikes.  
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Snoogans.

What, you think that just because the grid is somewhat stagnant in MotoGP that it's going to suddenly die off? This cycle of stagnation has occurred before, many times. If you were there during the 500GP years between '95 and '00, there were no new teams entering; only rehashes of the old ones, and there were only three brands of bike racing (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki...Cagiva had long since left) with the same configuration engine (V-four two-stroke). One rider was dominating (Doohan) and leaving everyone else behind. And yet GP racing continued to grow, alongside a growing WSBK series.

Dorna has multiple TV contracts with terrestial (main network) broadcast networks worth hundreds of millions. WSBK is barely able to get on cable networks, and they've had some of the best racing for over a decade. What worth would there be in merging the two to Dorna? The attendance at any venue that hosts a Grand Prix and a WSBK race in the same year is no contest; the GP draws far more race fans, hands down. I don't point this out as some sort of chest-pounding on MotoGP over WSBK; just pointing out that MotoGP isn't in some sort of dire straights that spell some kind of impending doom.

Not really sure where you get the idea that "the ones making MotoGP bikes are trying to work their way to doing the production bikes." The latest generation Honda CBRs had considerable input from HRC, in contrast to past designs that were primarily from Honda R&D; their performance increase speaks for itself. Same with Kawasaki's ZX-10R and 6R. Where do you think the crossplane crank in the new R1 came from?  

The best designers are still developing the bikes, whether Moto GP is around or not. Everyone seems to think that bikes progress because of Moto GP, but that's not entirely the case. That R1 system came from development of the R1 engine, not the GP engine, and it was tested in GP.

Kawasaki hasn't had an actively developed bike in GP for a couple of years now, and they don't seem to be struggling or regretting it. It's because the companies have their top designers in production, and they'll pick up newer developers for GP if they decide to return. You can argue with me all you want, but it is what it is.

You're also forgetting that WSBK is "barely able to get on cable networks" IN THE U.S. We're not as important in this area as you might think..... as most Americans might think. The rest of the world doesn't revolve around us. As a matter of fact, the big companies proved with AMA with the rules changes that we really don't matter much at all. They were tugging their support without budging on their demands. Valentino Rossi is the most popular athlete in the world. Mention that name to your non-motorcycle friends, and see how many people know that name.

The bottom line is that Moto GP isn't "in dire straights," because they are taking drastic action in every aspect of their organization. They couldn't have kept going the way they were. From test riders to tires to changing the engine back to 1,000 with limitations. They were having major problems.  
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Snoogans.

"That R1 system came from development of the R1 engine, not the GP engine, and it was tested in GP."

Incorrect. The cross-plane crank system was developed for the YZR-M1 back in '04, by the racing design team headed by Masao Furuzawa. I've spoken to him about it. Do you actually think they're going to risk losing races and championships by "testing" a production piece?  Rossi and Co. have been using it since the first race of '04. Have you actually spoken to anyone in the Yamaha MotoGP team or racing design dept at the factory?

"Kawasaki hasn't had an actively developed bike in GP for a couple of years now, and they don't seem to be struggling or regretting it. It's because the companies have their top designers in production, and they'll pick up newer developers for GP if they decide to return. You can argue with me all you want, but it is what it is."

"It is what it is"? Have you actually spoken with any of the engineers or management at the Kawasaki factory about the considerable influence of MotoGP on the latest gen ZX-10R and ZX-6R? I have. They've shown me the designs and concepts. The engineers responsible aren't in the production side; they're in the racing dept, and are staying there. It's the whole reason they moved the dept to Kawasaki's Autopolis test circuit in Kumamoto. With no MotoGP to take their time, they're focusing their efforts on WSBK- not production bikes. I don't know where you're getting your information, but it surely isn't factual.

"You're also forgetting that WSBK is "barely able to get on cable networks" IN THE U.S."

Read my reply more carefully please. I didn't mean the USA. I meant worldwide. Eurosport, TV1, et al, (the networks that carry WSBK in Europe) are terrestial "cable/satellite" networks. Not the main broadcast TV networks. Go check it out. Getting onto a main broadcast TV network is a major deal, which is where MotoGP is already situated in Europe and Asia (as well as the U.S.).

My point here (and in the beginning) is that MotoGP isn't in danger of becoming "if there is no interest in putting a bike in MotoGP, there is no MotoGP". It is in danger of stagnation, but as I said, that has happened before in the past. It hasn't resulted in the death of the series.  

OK, OK. Don't cry about it. Jesus. We'll just say you're right about everything you post, and that's that. I get it. You can't debate, and no matter how right or WRONG (sorry, but I don't know how to bold things) you are, you're right.

Even though none of my sources are with the actual companies, I would consider them reliable. Believe what you want, but again: it is what it is.

World Superbike is growing company, and will continue to grow. They don't struggle outside the US at all. They've gotten bigger and their merchandising and advertising growth show that. Unless it's a mistake, and you're seeing a "stagnation," or decrease in sales, you're not going through a major change in engine sizes a few years apart. And yes, WSBK saw a jump in viewership when Moto GP went to 800cc's.  
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Snoogans.

Hey, all I'm doing is pointing out the errors/assumptions/fabrications in your posts. All you have to do is post some actual facts that have some truth and/or proof behind them (instead of what appears to be pure conjecture on your part), and I'd be more than willing to agree with you or admit any errors on my part. It's called "debating". But since you haven't...

"Even though none of my sources are with the actual companies, I would consider them reliable. Believe what you want, but again: it is what it is. "

Don't know about you, but I would tend to believe sources that are the actual focal point of the discussion or are actually directly involved in it. I've actually named my first-hand sources, instead of some vague "I would consider them reliable" referral. But, that's just me. Hey, believe what you want...that definitely "is what it is."   Just don't try to present your wild guesses here as fact unless you have actual facts and knowledge of the subject to support them.

I could poke more holes in your last post, but just for the sake of putting this back on topic: I agree WSBK is doing well, a fact I've stated numerous times in this thread. What I don't believe is that MotoGP is in danger of disappearing or "becoming worthless" simply because of "if there is no interest in putting a bike in MotoGP, there is no MotoGP" or "decrease in sales" (whatever that is). Grand Prix racing will always be around, just as WSBK will always be around, whether one or the other surpasses it in popularity or not.  

Hey, this is my first post. Went through the whole 'Debate' (if you can call this one that). Jasonzilla, which side of whose bed did u wake up on man?!? God, every once in a while you have clowns like him lurking around jobless in forums. Superbike world championship was in doldrums and was dubiously named the 'Ducati Cup' at onepoint and all japanese manufacturers concentrated exclusively on Motogp when 4stroke engines were allowed. Fact is that Motogp is the oldest world championship series and is here to stay. Sure, it is going the Formula 1 way (unfortunately) with way too many rule changes every year but that another story. All manufacturers hands down prefer to compete in Motogp because it is there that their cutting edge technologies are pitted against each other. Why else would Ducati enter motogp when being such a successful manufacturer in SBK?? That Motogp at jerez 2010 attracted over 122,000 spectators just goes to show its popularity and ironically, to the detriment of the world championship as more popular the Motogp series, more the inclination toward a WWE type Entertainment that the focus is on which is not what the Championship has traditionally been about. But thats another thread. Kento 1, great job in bringing forth the facts, but, a debete is unfortunately not possible with retards!