Losing balance in U turn and figure 8

"In the middle of the turn, your head should be pointed down the road in the direction you want to go, with your weight still concentrated on the outside peg."
"Turn the bike quickly, getting the majority of your weight on the outside footpeg; if the bike starts to fall in too quickly, the lean angle can be arrested with throttle application or by simply dabbing your inside foot."

The above are from the article
Riding Skills Series: U-Turns-The Quick and Easy Way
By Jason Black

I'm having problems with the U turn and the figure 8. When I lean the bike especially in the U-turn, I tend to lose balance and fall inwards. I'm pretty sure I'm looking at the correct direction when I'm turning. Kindly explain how to ensure that my weight is concentrated on the outside peg. Do I lose balance because my lean angle is too much? And how does dabbing the inside foot help with the balance? what else can I do to keep the bike from falling inwards in figure 8? Does applying pressure on the outside peg help? I'm finding this weight distribution thing really frustrating. Sorry for the long and inconcise post!  

When I lean the bike especially in the U-turn, I tend to lose balance and fall inwards.
Doing a U-turn on a motorcycle is part balance, part power. First, the power part:

As your motorcycle turns, it scrubs off speed. Scrub off enough speed, and the gyroscopic effect of the wheels no longer is able to keep it upright, so it tends to fall toward the side you're leaning. In order to keep up your bike's momentum, you need to maintain forward progress, which means applying power. At the slow speeds required by U-turns, this means manipulation of the throttle and clutch to enable feeding in power without stalling the engine. Because some bikes don't have enough feel or progressiveness in their clutch, using the rear brake to help control the power assists the throttle/clutch manipulation in maintaining power to the rear wheel to help keep the bike upright.

Now, the balance part:

At very slow speeds, your weight has a huge effect on the bike's balance point. Also, the steering actually works opposite of how it does at normal speeds; you steer into the turn, as opposed to countersteering (steering away from the direction of the turn) when riding normally at speeds above 8 or so mph. What is meant by "getting the majority of your weight on the outside peg" is that you are not using your body to lean into the turn; you are keeping your body on top of the motorcycle, and steering it into the turn underneath you. If you look at photos of dirt bike riders in a turn, you'll note that they're usually sitting atop the bike while it is steered underneath them; note that their weight is on the outside peg as well (although it's also due to the fact that weighting the outside peg helps traction, and their inside foot is used help with balance through the turn). Keeping your weight on top of the bike during a U-turn helps maintain balance at slow speeds.  

Thanks! I understand your power part clearly. For the balance part, I still need a bit more clarification. I get the part about not using the body to lean and the need for steering into the turn. As for keeping your body on top of the motorcycle, how do you exactly do it? Is it by applying pressure on the outside peg? And I don't know how to use the inside foot for balance. Pls explain.    

As for keeping your body on top of the motorcycle, how do you exactly do it? Is it by applying pressure on the outside peg? And I don't know how to use the inside foot for balance. Pls explain.  

What you're doing is basically not leaning into the turn like you would normally at speed, and keeping your body weight on top of the motorcycle. You're keeping your body as perpendicular to the ground (as if you were riding in a straight line) as possible while steering the motorcycle into the turn. The effect of having most of your body weight on the outside peg is just a consequence of keeping your weight on top of the motorcycle and not leaning into the turn. Don't worry about using your inside foot for balance, I was only using that example to show why dirt bike riders stick their inside leg/foot out forward when making turns.  

Kento1 has given you some great advise,  I posted this in reply to another similar post and hope along with his this also helps.

"Other than Oil or gravel causing the fall, I see three areas that you may need to work on your technique;

The first and I think this may be the issue, is to turn your head and eyes were you want the bike to go. What this means exactly, is that wherever you look, that's where the bike will go. The reason the phrase "head and eyes" is used is that if you turn your head to the right, but your eyes look straight ahead, the technique WILL NOT work. Both your head and eyes must turn in the direction you want the bike to go. WHATEVER you do, do not look down unless you want to go down. This will take practice to become second nature.

The second technique is how to use the "friction zone". this is the area on the clutch between fully open and fully closed. So, as you let the clutch out and the bike starts to move, you are entering the friction zone. An easy way to become accustomed to riding the bike in the friction zone is to practice the slow race. That is simply going as slow as you possibly can without releasing the clutch completely.

The third technique is the proper use of the rear or controlling brake. With the motorcycle in the friction zone, keep your foot on the rear brake and feather it as the bike starts to move. By doing this you are making the motorcycle think it's going faster than it is. When you apply power and keep your foot on the rear brake, it keeps the motorcycle from falling over at low speeds which is where most riders have a problem.

If you don't use these techniques at 5 or 10 mph the motorcycle feels as if it wants to fall over on it's side. Try and AVOID using the front brake at when turning at parking lot speeds, as applying the front brake at 5 or 10 mph with the bars turned even slightly, tends to pull your bike to the ground like a magnet.  

Once you master these three simple techniques, It will surprise you at the tight maneuvers your bike can perform. You'll know you've gotten it right when you can make full lock turns in both directions at 5 mph with the pegs scraping a circle in the pavement.  

These techniques also help when you have to do that stupid figure 8 for the DMV license test.

Hope this helps, and as I like to say the 1st rule of motorcycle ridding is "Skull up, Rubber Down". "  

Thanks kento1 and Robi. I'm able to do the U-turn now after shifting my body weight to the outside peg (keeping my body on top of the motorcycle) when turning. I had the above three techniques that Robi stated in his post but still struggled with the U-turn and Figure 8. This point of keeping ur body weight on top of the motorcycle isn't emphasized when riders are taught figure 8 and the U-turn. My instructor never gave me this tip!   I guess it comes to most of them naturally..  

One thing that helped me in U turns and figure 8s was actually shifting my wieght with my shoulders slightly to the outside of the turn.  That really helped me get throught he tight turns.  This works very well for males, but may not work as well for females, since their center is gravity is lower than males.  For females, shift you hips slightly to the outside of the turn.  Don't forget to look where you want to go!  

Basically the same thing as keeping your weight "on top" of the motorcycle as it leans into a slow turn. You're countering the lean of the motorcycle as you steer it into a turn, so it almost feels like you're "pushing it down" into a turn, making it seem as if your shifting your weight to the outside.  

i think the best/better way was/is Robi's #2 and #3 tips used in conjuction with balance... ever watched a trials rider??  they 'power brake'...using both the clutch and the brakes to load the suspension, or un-load it, to balance the bike... verrry similar to what is being discussed here...  the BEST practice is to ride a dirtbike ALSO!!  a dirtbike background can cure so much on the street!!!  

Basically the same thing I described in my first post.

"At the slow speeds required by U-turns, this means manipulation of the throttle and clutch to enable feeding in power without stalling the engine. Because some bikes don't have enough feel or progressiveness in their clutch, using the rear brake to help control the power assists the throttle/clutch manipulation in maintaining power to the rear wheel to help keep the bike upright."

Also, the same technique with regards to turning and balance. The trials rider stays on top of the motorcycle (basically perpendicular to the ground) while turning the motorcycle underneath him.

Agreed that riding dirtbikes is good for the novice rider to help them understand the basics with a smaller, lighter machine.  

...and have experience with the bike moving around under you.. how many people have chopped the throttle in a corner when the rear tire moves around a bit? what happens then... crash...but, the rider that has a dirt background doesn't get excited, probably adds MORE throttle!! I feel that because a dirtbike moves around a lot, on the gas as well as off the gas, your're not as suprised or taken aback by it...

also teaches throttle control and braking control along with good balance.


 

That's what I meant by "the basics"...  

ohhh...  lol

tomato, tomatoe... 220,221... whatever it takes!!  lol



 

No worries.

If more people rode dirtbikes to complement their streetbike skills, there would be a lot less crashes and needless fatalities on the road. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to a truck to transport the off-road bikes, or even access to off-road riding areas, what with all the land being closed off.  

hey, what ever happened to the bill/law aboot riding on your own property??

i remember reading that Jeremy Mcgrath was involved...

and i think it's pretty cool that you participate on this board...