counter sterring vs leaning

Hello everyone,

My first post here.  Got a noob question.  Just trying to more understand the difference between counter steering and leaning and when to use both.  So if I'm say making a right turn, should I be leaning or counter steering.  Don't know if this has to do with me being left handed (lol) but I tend to counter steer more for right turns and lean more for left turns.

Strick  

OK, to turn you have got to counter-steer... The act of precise steering is done with the handlebars / clip-ons. Period.

If the handle bars were solid, lean angle would do nothing to steer the bike. You figure you are leaning to turn, when in fact you are conter-steering with out noticing you are doing it. The more you lean the more your front tire is actually counter-stearing.

Say you riding the bike on a big empty parking lot... Make some circles... With the bike leaned over... Try to hold the handlebars / clip-ons in place... Now, try bring the bike up... Can you do it??

The lean is to use gravity to keep the bike from falling to the out-side of the turn by the centrifugal force that wants to keep you going straight. To make the same turn at a higher speed you must use more lean, more gravity pull to compensate for greater centrifugal force.

The more you counter-steer the sharper you turn, and the more lean you will get.

You do have a limited amout of lean angle before the tires lose traction and the wheel(s) slide to the out-side.

To help add weight to the in-side riders hang off to the in-side of the turn. This is done to increase the gravity pull with less lean angle. Or more speed with same angle. With full gear, good riders drag knee... This also helps calculate lean angle. Better riders drag elbows... (Yeah Right!)

One last note... Get used to the idea of counter-steering... In an emergency situation instinct is your worst enemy; If you need to swerve right, and do not have your conter-steering strait, you will go left, exactly towards whatever you were trying to avoid.

There is a lot of theory about riding that you need to have implanted in your brain. Getting on a bike because you think you can just twist the throttle and go fast, is a Bad idea... Sooner than later will leads to an accident.

Luis  

Don't think too much. You'll just get yourself in trouble. Take an MSF course and learn by doing. It's great to read a book and learn the terms but experience is the best teacher. If an MSF isn't your cup of tea or it's too expensive just be careful and find an empty parking lot and try slow speed tight turns working the the clutch and gas and brakes. You will instinctivly counter steer without even know it. You'll get the feel soon enough. After you get comfortable on the street and want your riding to go to the next level take it to the track. Track riding will make your street riding much better. Only problem is you'll want to dump all your money into the track(don't ask me how I know this).  

Here's my attempt at breaking it down for a beginner.

Mostly, you counter steer at higher speeds such as about 40 mph and up.

I don't know how fast you have gone on your bike. But you need to notice the next time you ride how easy it IS or ISN'T to lean your bike (with just your weight) at certain speeds.

For instance, if you are comfortable riding at 80mph, (of course in a safe area with proper safety gear) try using just your body weight to lean the bike. Make sure your hands aren't doing anything, just holding on. Then do the same at 50 mph.

You SHOULD notice that at lower speeds it is easier to lean your bike with just your body weight. And this is because of the gyroscopic force your wheels make as they spin. The faster they spin (aka the faster you are going) the more powerful that balancing force will be that wants to keep you perfectly straight and upright.

SO... if you try to take a high speed turn with just your bodyweight you will find it's almost impossible to get your bike to lean and turn with that alone.

This is where counter steering comes in. They say: Push left to go left and push right to go right. This means push forward with the palm of your left hand to make the bike go left and vice versa.

What this is actually doing when you push left is steering the bike to the RIGHT. Causing the bike to fall down to the left. Thus achieving the lean to the left.

Keep in mind the faster you are going, the harder you will have to push in order to get the bike to lean.

It is INVALUABLE as a motorcyclist to use this technique and become proficient at it. Especially at higher speeds. Make it a priority to put this to practice and to get so good at it that it becomes a reaction without even having to think about it.

Once you get pretty good at that, remember that if you ride with one hand while cruising you can just push OR pull on the one handle to go either way. Don't rush into that until you are good and ready though.

Normal steering and leaning come more into play at low speeds like 30mph and less.

I hope that helps    

These guys have got it right on.  Counter steering is happening whether you realize it or not, especially at higher speeds.  Don't overthink when you're on the street.  Too much thinking is a recipe for bad news as far as I'm concerned.  Counter steering is a technique that must be conquered, but practice your steering inputs in a controlled environment (parking lots are best).

I've noticed that several things can initiate and influence your lean angle and I've been practicing them all.  Counter steering is the most effective, but I suggest practicing some of the following to get a feel for how they affect the bike.  Pressure on the gas tank from your thigh, pressure on the foot pegs and moving your thigh out from the tank all have influences on your lean.

Good luck and ride it safe!    

Granted this is just my opinion as far as riding at speed 20 mph and up nothing other than countersteering feels right granted you are always doing it even when you lean it forces you to countsteer but your doing it without control. I feel i have much more control of the bike by staying neutral and letting my arms do the countersteering.

At higher speeds or sharper turns i may weigh the inside peg and use my outer knee to press on the tank. I think it mostly helps me control my body on the bike moreso than helping the bike turn.  

one extra note just in case anyone doesn't think they countersteer when they lean, try this sit down somewhere where you can freely lean from left to right take your hands and reach out and grab some imaginary handlebars/clip-ons and while wathing your hands lean to the right and left and note what your arms are doing. When you lean right you will notice your right arm move slightly forward and vise versa tada countersteering!  

with the help from my friends, the ride on  the zx14 made me learn alot in terms of counter steering etc. towards the end of the ride I was turning in decently.
however the speed & judgement are yet to be worked on.