aggressive cornering

Shades of gray.

Casey, I do not close the throttle while 'initiating a

turn' - any turn, sweepers or hairpens, fast or slow.

Brake/down-shift - match gear/rpm/road speed - select line/

look through corner. I will also induce more lean or use

the rear brake, as noted, to make corrections.

I ride both a big bike (ZX-12R) and a little bike (The might

y GS-500e) In both cases, I tend to set throttle position

and entry speed prior to entering a corner.

Another note*

Never ride above and beyond what the road will allow. If you

don't know go slow. - Hooligan rule #6  

I agree with open roads... Personally, I don't use the rear brake at all when on the track or during spirited riding. On my bike it will lock in a heartbeat... Also, the only input of throttle is at the direction change in the corner. Corner speed should ALWAYS be set in a straight line. The only reason to go into a corner too fast is if you don't know the corner well and simply blow it and over estimate in which case you should be decelerating anyway, having set entry speed to set up for the lean. Usually though loosing the bike to the outside late in a turn is more an issue of too early, too much (throttle)...

When riding street I tend to ride as the article on this page states with regard to pace. I use mostly engine braking on the road (different stroy on the track)... I can, tons of torque... but not always. This was taught to me and it has served me well so far... I may not be the fastest on the street, but I'm ok with that... My tires are scrubbed from sidewall to sidewall... good enough for me...  

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Shades of gray.

Casey, I do not close the throttle while 'initiating a

turn' - any turn, sweepers or hairpens, fast or slow.

Brake/down-shift - match gear/rpm/road speed - select line/

look through corner.

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Yes Sir, my throttle is not shut.

Just a varation of the throttle blip.

*Note

Some set the idle high, until they get the technique down.  

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Yes Sir, my throttle is not shut.

Just a varation of the throttle blip.

*Note

Some set the idle high, until they get the technique down.

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I think either stuff is getting lost in the translation here, or something...

Jason Pridmore is reputed to use this technique. Instead of blipping the throttle, the throttle is held open slightly during the downshift while braking.

Raising the idle is a sort of poor man's slipper clutch. It decreases the effect of engine braking on corner entrance so it's not as easy to get the rear wheel chirping and hopping.

Then there is Eric Bostrom, who does not blip the throttle, relying instead on deft clutchwork. Folks who attended a AMA Superbike race when EBoz was on the factory Ducati could hear a marked difference in how his 999 sounds on corner entry compared to Neil Hodgson.

Whatever works for a particular individual in a particular situation is what works, I guess.  

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Then there is Eric Bostrom, who does not blip the throttle, relying instead on deft clutchwork.

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That's what I've read and what his bike sounds like seems to confirm this going into corners at Road America during practice and qualifying. Of course, his entry speed and quickness and precision while doing it this way is... well, it's why he is a factory rider and we have day jobs.

I suppose a AMA Superbike-spec 999 will be sure to have a slipper clutch but I'm fairly certain he used this same technique when he was on the Kawasaki years prior.

My DVR recording of the Fontana FX race (which EBoz won on the -R6) was deleted acidentally, so unfortunately, I don't a more recent example.  

Thanks for attempting to clear that up for me, TEVO.
Sometimes it's hard for me to grasp what Master Yoda is saying.

If use layman's terms did he, more intellegent sound, he would.

 

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Steady throttle or perhaps gentle roll off throttle and lean it more, up to and including the point where things start scraping.  

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i also have a question i have a problem tackling a 60 to 65mph right hand decreasing radius corner which slopes a bit downhill, my brain goes haywire (red flag goes up) whenever i approach it, must be fear but on some corners i have no problems tackling the same type of corners which are a bit faster (they are my fave), it's only that particular corner i'm really fearful of.

when you guys hit a wall which stops you from progressing how do you deal with this situations? i've had a trackday just this week & i can say my comfort level isn't as high as i hoped but the bike sure can take more than what i can dish out, i need some helpful (professional) advice, how do i condition my mind to tackle speeds that are virtually terrifying, from 20hp cub racer to 105hp supersport bike the gap is huge especially when ridden at the track.  

Trackdays are great but sometimes, you need more than just seat time out on the track. Did your trackday offer any type of instruction or mentoring?

I find sometimes that the next step in becoming a more skillful rider requires learning from riders who are experts on the bike and good with imparting that knowledge  to others.

Not sure if there are any trackbased riding schools in the Phillipines but that may be the solution. Does Keith Code have any affiliates in that country? <www.superbikeschool.com>

Another way is, of course, simply more seat time. Downhill decreasing radius corners are some of the more challenging situations. For these, I usually set a slower entry speed so I can maintain positive throttle through the corner. Carrying higher revs than for a normal corner may also help, compression braking is higher and may help control building up too much speed, even with a neutral or gradually increasing throttle.

Last but not least, following a faster rider may also be instructional.  

thanks for words of wisdom i will keep that in mind for my next trackday, i guess there's no affiliated school with Keith Code here only an MRC (motorcycle rider course) which is an equivalent of MSF there but they do offer an Advanced Riding course for experienced riders or those that wanna learn the craft.

well i didn't have any instructioning or mentoring other than what Nick Ienatsch & Keith Code wrote in their books & they proved to be very helpful in some places of the track but when it comes to my mental (fear) barrier it does little to help me overcome it, maybe i just need to trust my bike & tires a little more.

you're right about following a faster rider through the course but the problem is i always get left behind real quick so ican only watch them take that very corner from a distance & try to remember which line they took.

specifically my problem is that i don't lean the bike far enough when entering the turn, the corner is also banked which gives room for a bit more speed, pros usually enter that particular turn at 65mph while me could only do 55mph, anomore speed or lean angle & the red flag goes up.

maybe it's the fear of going downhill that plays tricks on my mind? next time i come back i'll be using the 20hp cub racer & try as hell to match the cornering speed of the pros, i know the 600RR & the Pilot Powers can handle more corner speed & lean angle but the problem lies within me so i need to concentrate on breaking that mental barrier of mine.    

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is there anyway to escape those kinda situations if ur suddenly in a "S" curve and u went fast on the first changing direction could be a chalenge for some new riders that could be it they riding days are done   if they dont make the aggressive change of direction or they havnt learned how to fling the bike hard cause for me ive been riding for 15 yrs and sometomes it stills scares the [Email]sh@#%[/Email] out of me but the only thing with riders that been riding for a while is that even in those kinda situation they dont loose their composure and still keep their presence of mind on wut to do, like for me i have my share of time riding but i still keep on learning like everyday i get on the freeway i tend to learn something new   its just that if regular riders sometimes has close calls with this kinda curves wut else for new guys who just got on their 600cc as their new bikes u got to admit theres alot of people out there whos learning on their 600cc.... is there a smoother way to deal with this situation other than an aggressive maneuver??? cause sometimes saying [Email]holyshi@#%[/Email] as ur last resort just wont do it  

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Well, those lucious (?) "S"-curves are great.  Throwing your bike from left to right and so on.  Seeking your leaning (? )limit...  This got me worried some times cause when I really had it going through such curves the front end of my bike tended to skid when flicked over.  after trying three different tire sets (BT020, Mez4 and Diablo) on my Bandit 600, they all got to a point where they lost grip.
People told me how to get through a quick shift of direction during a turn.  Lean eg. to left in the first corner at what is your initial cornering speed.  For the follow up right one I needed to open up the throtle a little more which would help in getting it upright and flicking it to thr right.  Yet when I really got storming through this kind of corners, right after the flick I lost grip at the front end.  And every bit of thrust in my tires and bike was lost.  Nobody could tell me why.
Things got explained in an article I read a couple of weeks ago.  When opening throttle a bike tends to "heave" itself out of it's springs, which will result in a little more ground clearance.  Offcourse during a flick over the bike will tend to "jump" using afore mentioned technique.  This will lose you a conciderable amount of grip cause weight is lifted from your tires.  This is supposed to be something called "Squat".
It opened my eyes reading about that in the fact that I really don't know anything about how a bike reacts to different input from it's rider...  Hence me joining this forum and hping to learn a little more.

Hmm, some how I have this feeling I got a little off track about what the answer is to the question in the first line...    

What I do in a situation like that is actually slow down and work on being really smooth and in good form. You do this until you feel ultimately comfortable going through the corner. As long as you stay smooth your speed will increase gradually. Smooth is fast and fast is smooth. Just my .02 cents