80% Myth

I was throwing out some old magazines when I spotted a Sport Rider from a month or two ago....  It had an article on riding 80% pace on the street so you have a margine of safety.  And how most people generally ride much faster than this.  I was just wonder what people think of this....

Originally, I agreed with the article.  Because I don't think that I could ride 20% faster than I normally ride when I am messing around.  But then I was thinking that maybe it isn't linear.  More of a curve...  Or logrithmic...  Kind of like double the power to go twice as fast....  One of those where 80% might be a 2 minute lap on some track, and 90% might be 1:55, and 100% pace would be a 1:53 lap....  Something where there is a diminishing returns, as the pace gets upped..

Just wondering if people agree or disagree....



Chris  

As stated in your other thread on the exact same subject in the "Tech" section (I take it you probably meant for it to be here...):

Jeff Hughes wasn't talking about actual speed or lap times when he refers to the "80 Percent Myth". He was talking about personal performance envelopes; how fast you are going before you begin to feel uncomfortable that you are pushing close to the edge. For some, that may be the difference between a 1:30 and a 1:40 lap time; others, it might be the difference between a 1:30 and a 1:33 lap. The point of the story was to really be honest with yourself, and determine what that percentile is. Then think about it and see if you really are riding at 80%.  

I find that if I ride a gear higher than normal I ride smoother. I don't have to worry so much about too much jerkiness through the cornering process and also not looking at the speedo helps me. I generally ride better & faster through the curves when I don't pay attention to my speed and just concentrate on the road.  

This article came with rather interesting timing for me.  While out on an early morning ride, while "driving miss daisy", I found myself sliding on the aslphalt behind my ride.  Not exactly how I'd planned for the ride to go.  No biggie, limped her home and began the repairs.

While talking to an old riding buddy about the mishap a few days later he commented that based on some of the damage I must have been moving at a pretty decent clip.  I told him I wasn't, that I was out sight seeing, and was "driving miss daisy."  I told him I figured that's why I went down was because this ride was usually taken at a more agressive pace so by just cruising I'd thrown myself off.  He laughed and said "yeah, you were riding at 80%, right?"

It gave me a lot to think about.  Here I was, riding at a pace I wouldn't even have considered close to 80% yet I found myself doing some horizontal asphalt surfing.  And yes, based on the slide and subsequent damage, I was quite a bit closer to 80% than I had thought or had intended on riding.  It sure has given me a lot to think about on each ride from now on.

While I believe that 80% on the street is far from 80% on the track I tend to agree with the article that many of us are fooling ourselves, especially on the street, when we tell ourselves we're only riding at 80%.  

I agreed with the article pretty much.  I do believe that most people think that they have that reserve when they really don't.  Like when those "oh [censored]" moments come...they scare the b-jesus out you cause you don't really have that reserve like you originally thought.  that's why when they happen you (usually, anyways) slow down and take it easy.  I don't know, maybe I'm speaking for myself, i don't know.  Anyone else see it like me?  

What I think 80% means is that when you reach the "OH SHI*" point and are able to ride it out and not run off the road. You had that little bit of reserve left over so you didn't panic.  

Well, the best I can ride isn't squat.....
So 80% of nothing is still .....nothing.

So it doesn't matter if I'm riding at 100% of slow or 80% of slow.
It's still slow.  

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I was throwing out some old magazines when I spotted a Sport Rider from a month or two ago....  It had an article on riding 80% pace on the street so you have a margine of safety.  And how most people generally ride much faster than this.  I was just wonder what people think of this....

Originally, I agreed with the article.  Because I don't think that I could ride 20% faster than I normally ride when I am messing around.  But then I was thinking that maybe it isn't linear.  More of a curve...  Or logrithmic...  Kind of like double the power to go twice as fast....  One of those where 80% might be a 2 minute lap on some track, and 90% might be 1:55, and 100% pace would be a 1:53 lap....  Something where there is a diminishing returns, as the pace gets upped..

Just wondering if people agree or disagree....



Chris

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Just something to consider, you never know what awaits around the corner!  Could be a stopped car... which would be bad if you rear ended it going at any rate of speed.  I generally keep to a pace that will give me plently of space to come to a complete stop.  Does this mean riding slow?  Of course not!  It means looking as far ahead as possible and this usually involves late apexing the corners so you can "see" around the corner.  Also, paying attention to what the vehicles ahead of you are doing gives you a clue as to what's ahead; if you see a bunch of cars ahead hitting the brakes, you'll probaby want to slow down.  Ya know, common sense stuff.  

Well, we've already discussed this before and some people jumped all over me because they couldn't accept it.

You HAVE to ride slower if you are going to cut your risk level.  There's this curve I like to take at 60mph.  While I can see that there are no cars stopped on this curve, I can't be 100% sure that there is no dirt or oil laid down in the road.  I am taking a risk by railing through there at 60mph.  So far I've been through there maybe 50 times and I have never encountered any dirt/oil, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

The risk goes up exponentially if it is a blind curve where you can't see anything at all around the bend.

It'a all up to each individual to choose their level of risk.  I choose not to ride completely blind curves because I won't accept that level of risk.

And the faster you go the more risky it becomes.  Therefore, it goes without saying that the slower you go the lower your risk becomes.  

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The risk goes up exponentially if it is a blind curve where you can't see anything at all around the bend.

It'a all up to each individual to choose their level of risk. I choose not to ride completely blind curves because I won't accept that level of risk.

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I don't know where you can find a curvy road where there isn't at least a couple of blind corners here and there, but if you 'choose not to' ride roads with blind corners, then I strongly advise that you avoid riding in Western NC.
Probably 30%-40% of the corners are blind here (on the GOOD roads).

They aren't necessarily more risky, you just have to know how to ride them. On the blind right handers, it's not as much of an issue, because as you negotiate the turn and reach the apex, you are closer to the edge of the road and further away from Sally Soccer Mom's minivan. But on the left handers you just need to always set up the turn as far to the right as you can get on the road and turn in pretty late, that allows you to see further through the corner. It also will aid you in keeping your head and upper body well onto your side of the double yellow, which is very important. That is a topic I am still struggling with, but I'm getting better at. One too many times some big flatbed truck with open pipes has met me in a blind left hander with his tires on the dividing line and (seemingly to me) nearly clipped my helmet with his rear view mirror. That's when you just have to know how to change lines INSTANTLY in mid corner (i.e. steer the bike). And say you come up on an obstruction, like , oh, I don't know... a 150lb doe with a yearling standing in your lane. Well then you just need to know how to scrub speed at lean, stand the bike up, and stop (i.e. stop the bike) And since you're stopping in front of a lady (even if it is an animal) you should always do a nice high stoppie as you come to the stop.  

I don't think that one type of road is necessarily more risky than another, but I think that riding outside of your abilities always is risky, and instinctively knowing how to treat different road conditions is paramount to expanding your range of abilities. 'Risk' goes down as knowledge and abilities go up, not as road conditions change. If the changing road conditions make you feel like your risk level is increasing, then all that really means is that you are now riding outside of your abilities (or at least above the 80%) and you should tone down your riding (i.e. reduce speeds, lean angles, etc. ) to match your skill level to the road.  

I don't know if you have the same kind of drivers we have in Arkansas but on winding backroads they hillbillies like to apex their curves all the way into the other damn lane...  

My whole family is from South Arkansas and East Texas. I'm only in NC because I'm the 'black sheep'.
Yes, they drive like that here. Often I'll get behind some hotshot in a Subaru who wants to show me that his car is every bit as fast through the curves as my bike. What a joke. To go around a right hander, they move into the left lane (COMPLETELY) and apex in the right lane then swing back wide into the left lane. It doesn't impress me much. All it really does is piss me off.
Don't even get me started.  

This is fun. My wife and I have many such discussions over dinner. Her thoughts: You can forget about riding so slowly you can stop in your sight distance as soon as you leave the freeway.  A good way to judge your so called 80% level is to ALWAYS give yourself only a 6 inch wide line of travel. If you are not on that 6 inch line, you need to slow down. Should I take my ring back?  

Hummm, six inches wide. I have not thought of it like that before. But I can put my 6" line anywhere between the white line on my right and the yellow line to my left, and make the line as straight as possible inside of these barriers. Is that kind of what she has in mind?