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Degrees of Control
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DataDan
New User
| Posts: 9
| Joined: 11/99
Posted: 10/16/05
06:11 PM
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A while back I asked Trevitt if he might post an essay by Jeff Hughes from 2003 called Degrees of Control to the Sport Rider site. It's an excellent piece about recognizing one's own limits. An excerpt:
We all undertake a modicum of risk every time we thumb the starter—it’s just inherent to the sport. But those of us who choose to adopt a faster pace deliberately assume more of that danger. We knowingly engage the laws of probability in a game of chicken. You play it long enough and you lose. That’s what we’ve always been told, right?
Why is it then, that such a select group of riders manages to ride at an elevated pace over many miles, weekend after weekend, trip after trip, year after year, with little in the way of a mishap? Why are these riders seemingly held apart, aloof, from the carnage which too-often otherwise affects our sport? And how is it that so many other riders, traveling at much lesser speeds, still manage to toss away their bikes with such depressing frequency?
Well, maybe we’ve been looking in the wrong place all along. Maybe, just maybe, it’s not about speed after all—at least not in the way we usually think of it. Maybe it’s about something else, something as simple as the degree of control we exercise over a span of road.
Read the whole thing. It's one of the few—and best—pieces about riding attitude I've seen in many years of reading motorcycle magazines.
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Posted: 10/17/05
06:15 AM
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I'm going to make it a point to read that. Thanks.
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zyglob
User
| Posts: 116
| Joined: 11/99
Posted: 10/17/05
03:17 PM
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We have talked about this phenomenon before on this board, with little or no consensus made. But here’s my take that I have tried to explain to other people before:
Those guys who are lucky enough to have careers in the motorcycle press circle--I.e. the same kinds of guys that write such articles as you find in Motorcyclist and Sport Rider--have enjoyed a full life of riding in all sorts of venues, most notably the tracks and roads in southern California and the more famous tracks around the country. A lot of them have been involved in at least some form of amateur racing.
Then there are the people who happen to be lucky enough to live near a race track or near a great twisty riding road (like Deal’s Gap, etc.), and maybe they have foregone other aspects of their lives to be married to their motorcycles. Or maybe they are fortunate enough to be wealthy enough not to have to work a lot and can spend time going up and down a favorite twisty road until they have learned it sufficiently enough to show up anyone who dares to ride their turf.
So it shouldn’t surprise anyone that there exists a sort of cabal amongst these people. It’s easy for them to cluck their tongues and shake their heads at the majority of the rest of the motorcycling world who have not been fortunate (or capable) enough to live the same kind of lifestyle to become “expert” riders.
I am in no way trying to bash these people. If they have healthy egos, which I know they have, they will slough it off and mentally say to themselves “Well at least I am better than THIS guy”. I know they will not lose any sleep over anything *I* say. But what I say is the truth, as uncomfortable as it may be to those who hear it.
My path in life is a middle class husband and father. I *somewhat* wish I could have devoted my life to my motorcycle, do some amateur racing, and be one of those expert riders that I was talking about. But it will never happen, so I have to be content and satisfied with being a intermediately skilled weekend rider. Believe me, I have just as much fun carving up an empty parking lot as those expert riders have passing squids on Angeles Crest.
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casey
Enthusiast
| Posts: 470
| Joined: 09/05
Posted: 10/17/05
04:46 PM
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I'm not exactly sure what any of that sour little diatribe has to do with the excerpt, but perhaps the reason that no consensus has been made is because no one agrees with you.
I know I don't.
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DataDan
New User
| Posts: 9
| Joined: 11/99
Posted: 10/17/05
05:27 PM
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Quote:
zyglob wrote: We have talked about this phenomenon before on this board, with little or no consensus made. But here’s my take...
I didn't find "Degrees" the least bit elitist about speed or skill level. The payoff is his advice about how to recognize your own transgression into the zone of increasing danger—at whatever speed it may occur:
We’ve all been there. We instantly know we’re in a new place because it’s suddenly different. Our lines are no longer quite so clean. We’re on the brakes more, and we’re making little mistakes in our timing. And instead of that Zen-like rush through the corners we enjoyed just moments ago—the state of grace that is the prize of this sport—we’re now caught up in the brief slivers of time between corners trying to fix those mistakes. They seem to be coming faster now—both the corners and the mistakes—and there doesn’t seem to be quite enough time to do what we need to do, the errors piling up in an increasingly dissonant heap. Our normally smooth riding is suddenly ragged, with an edgy and anxious quality. Inside our helmets the laughter mutes and then is gone altogether, replaced by a grim determination to stay on pace. We start to mutter little self-reproaches with each newborn error.
The same recognition of more mistakes, greater anxiety, and failing smoothness can occur at any skill level. I remember it happening to me long ago when I was in danger every time I threw a leg over a bike, and it still happens today—though rarely. Hughes' description resonated with me because I've thought about those "moments" and how their decreasing frequency has tracked my progress as a rider. Not in speed, but in enjoyment.
I'm sure I'm slower today at the age of <cough> than I was fifteen years ago when I was doing a thousand track miles a year. But I'm having much more fun. No internal pressure to up the pace, and none of those nervous moments, hoping that tires hold and that I can execute control inputs with the precision needed. Instead, I hold back enough to maintain a comfortable margin for error, and I don't spend my psychic energy holding a razor's edge. I've found a level that allows me to exercise the degree of control Hughes describes, though it sometimes leaves me behind the better (or merely braver) riders.
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zyglob
User
| Posts: 116
| Joined: 11/99
Posted: 10/17/05
06:13 PM
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Casey, he starts his article by *basically* saying "How come these guys are not as good as *I/we* are?", and then he starts to analyze why (in reference to the crashes other people have--you ever notice that these motorcycle article writers never talk about the crashes that THEY have had?). It's like a major league baseball team saying "How come those little league kids are not as good as we are?"
There was nothing "sour" about my diatribe--and like I said I'm sure they don't care what I think. They're too busy having fun by riding a lot and getting tons of practice on a real race track. What would that cost you and I?
That was my point...
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wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 10/17/05
06:39 PM
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Quote:
Casey, he starts his article by *basically* saying "How come these guys are not as good as *I/we* are?
Gee, that's funny, I see the first paragraph talking about someone who is better than "I/we are"...
Quote:
...and then he starts to analyze why (in reference to the crashes other people have--you ever notice that these motorcycle article writers never talk about the crashes that THEY have had?)
That's because once again you're spouting off false claims without any real knowledge of the "truth". Just FYI, Hughes, Kunitsugu and Trevitt have all written several columns in the past about their own crashes.
Quote:
There was nothing "sour" about my diatribe-- and like I said I'm sure they don't care what I think. They're too busy having fun by riding a lot and getting tons of practice on a real race track. What would that cost you and I?
Hmm, really? Just as an example, try reading the words in your response I've highlighted and tell us they don't sound sour...
Basically, all I saw in your original post was a self-pitying monologue that really had nothing to do with Hughes' story.
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casey
Enthusiast
| Posts: 470
| Joined: 09/05
Posted: 10/17/05
07:53 PM
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Thanks for the backup, Wheelspin.
I don't really know what to tell you Zyglob.
The same roads that the editors ride, that I ride, and that everybody else rides are open to you, too. Maybe you should venture out of the empty parking lot once in a while and try them out.
I'm 30 years old and married with 5 kids. Single income, not rich, work 45-55 hours a week on average, I'm not rich by a long shot. Instead of making excuses as to why I'm not a better rider, or trying to explain away why some people ride better than me, I'm out there riding every day that I can....trying to GET better. I'm on here asking questions of people like Wheelspin and realfastbill that have the knowledge to share....that will MAKE me a better rider....etc. I want to BE a better rider, not have an explanation as to why I'm mediocre.
I'm not quite sure what your deal is.
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geof
User
| Posts: 95
| Joined: 09/05
Posted: 10/17/05
08:36 PM
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Wow Zyglob... You really are off base here. The article was not written in any way self agrandising or elitist. In fact it simply describes the rider I would think we would all like to be. Speed is irrelevant, experience is irrelevant (though definately a plus to attaining this zone)...
It simply describes Zen riding. If you can ride the leathers off most people in this Zen-like zone, great. If you have chicken strips and are in your Zen zone... Great too.
The way you put it almost makes it sound as if you have not been able to attain this level of mental peace sitting on the wheel, thus needing to denigrate the original author as "lucky he gets to ride all day long". Hours spent on the bike have no real control over the mental aspect of riding. Either you have it, or you don't. It's the guys that speak of their numerous crashes with bravado that this article speaks to.
I hope to never crash. And attain that perfect level of control... If that means I'm "slow" oh well. At least I have all of my own skin...
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zyglob
User
| Posts: 116
| Joined: 11/99
Posted: 10/17/05
09:13 PM
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Quote:
Hmm, really? Just as an example, try reading the words in your response I've highlighted and tell us they don't sound sour...
Try reading Jeff Hughes' words and tell us they don't sound elitist...
I knew I'd draw you out, Wheelspin you old troll! 
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wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 10/17/05
09:27 PM
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Quote:
Try reading Jeff Hughes' words and tell us they don't sound elitist...
Uh, I have, a few times, and unfortunately, they fail miserably at sounding "elitist". Your words, on the other hand, pack enough sour grapes to make quite a few cases of whine...
Quote:
I knew I'd draw you out, Wheelspin you old troll!
And that's something to be proud of?
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Trevitt
Administrator
| Posts: 295
| Joined: 11/99
Posted: 10/17/05
09:50 PM
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Quote:
We have talked about this phenomenon before on this board, with little or no consensus made. But here’s my take that I have tried to explain to other people before:
Those guys who are lucky enough to have careers in the motorcycle press circle--I.e. the same kinds of guys that write such articles as you find in Motorcyclist and Sport Rider--have enjoyed a full life of riding in all sorts of venues, most notably the tracks and roads in southern California and the more famous tracks around the country. A lot of them have been involved in at least some form of amateur racing.
Then there are the people who happen to be lucky enough to live near a race track or near a great twisty riding road (like Deal’s Gap, etc.), and maybe they have foregone other aspects of their lives to be married to their motorcycles. Or maybe they are fortunate enough to be wealthy enough not to have to work a lot and can spend time going up and down a favorite twisty road until they have learned it sufficiently enough to show up anyone who dares to ride their turf.
So it shouldn’t surprise anyone that there exists a sort of cabal amongst these people. It’s easy for them to cluck their tongues and shake their heads at the majority of the rest of the motorcycling world who have not been fortunate (or capable) enough to live the same kind of lifestyle to become “expert” riders.
I am in no way trying to bash these people. If they have healthy egos, which I know they have, they will slough it off and mentally say to themselves “Well at least I am better than THIS guy”. I know they will not lose any sleep over anything *I* say. But what I say is the truth, as uncomfortable as it may be to those who hear it.
My path in life is a middle class husband and father. I *somewhat* wish I could have devoted my life to my motorcycle, do some amateur racing, and be one of those expert riders that I was talking about. But it will never happen, so I have to be content and satisfied with being a intermediately skilled weekend rider. Believe me, I have just as much fun carving up an empty parking lot as those expert riders have passing squids on Angeles Crest.
Zyglob, I think you're missing a couple of key points here. One is that those so-called expert riders, like some of those that work at the magazines or the person referred to in the story, started as beginners and made the effort and put in the time and hard work to get where they are now. It's not so much luck as it is hard work and desire.
The second is that if you consider yourself an intermediate rider and stuck that way, well...you'll be stuck that way. How do you know that if you don't put your mind to it, take a couple of schools or read some riding books that you couldn't make a big step in your riding if you don't try?
Finally, even the best riders are still learning, all the time. A lot of them don't "cluck their tongues and shake their heads at the majority of riders," but rather they are putting their skills to use and trying to teach riders like you how to improve. Whether that's writing a book, running a school, writing a story in a magazine about degrees of control or just offering advice on a message board, for you to poo poo those people and lump them in with "passing squids on Angeles Crest" is a bit silly.
AT
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casey
Enthusiast
| Posts: 470
| Joined: 09/05
Posted: 10/17/05
10:56 PM
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Quote:
Your words, on the other hand, pack enough sour grapes to make quite a few cases of whine...
 Good stuff!
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zyglob
User
| Posts: 116
| Joined: 11/99
Posted: 10/17/05
10:57 PM
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Quote:
Thanks for the backup, Wheelspin.
You need "backup" just because I was explaining my point to you? This is not a bar room brawl or tag team wrestling. How old are you, Casey?
Quote:
I don't really know what to tell you Zyglob.
How about nothing--oh geesh--too late.
Quote:
The same roads that the editors ride, that I ride, and that everybody else rides are open to you, too. Maybe you should venture out of the empty parking lot once in a while and try them out.
I was going to address that, but then I thought “Nah, this is enough to get them all hot and bothered without me writing any more about this.”
Quote:
I'm 30 years old and married with 5 kids. Single income, not rich, work 45-55 hours a week on average, I'm not rich by a long shot. Instead of making excuses as to why I'm not a better rider, or trying to explain away why some people ride better than me, I'm out there riding every day that I can....trying to GET better.
Brings a tear to my eye. “Mommy Mommy! Why does daddy ride his motorcycle all the time even after he gets through working 45-55 hours a week?” (repeat 5 times)
Try spending some time with your children, then you’ll get my respect.
Quote:
I'm on here asking questions of people like Wheelspin and realfastbill that have the knowledge to share....that will MAKE me a better rider....etc.
If you want *real* instruction, might I suggest Jason Pridmore, Freddy Spencer, Kevin Schwantz, or Keith Code. You can learn real skills that simply can not come from people on a forum or by reading a book. Any “expert” rider worth his salt on this forum will tell you the same thing.
Quote:
I want to BE a better rider, not have an explanation as to why I'm mediocre.
Then you missed the Zen-like point of the article--so why did you even read it at all? And tell me, what do you get for rising out of mediocrity? A shiny trophy? If your answer is “self-satisfaction”, then amen brother. There is nothing more self-satisfying than using your own brain and learning on your own. You don’t need someone to tell you how to do something--just do it. Example: I was trail-braking before I even heard from Freddy Spencer what trail-braking was. When I heard what it was, I thought to myself “hey neat--I already do that”.
Quote:
I'm not quite sure what your deal is.
Try thinking for yourself--that's what my deal is. I don't hold up expert motorcycle riders as gods or heroes any more than I would a janitor or a convenience store clerk. They all do their job well, and I would suspect that they would not be able to do my job any better than I could do theirs. That’s what you are failing to see here. These people get PAID to ride motorcycles and write articles about it.
You seem to love accusing me of making excuses for myself, so I’ll let you in on a little secret: I have a debilitating disease that saps my strength and energy, so I cannot ride a motorcycle for very long like I used to. 45 minutes at most. So I have fun for 45 minutes and I go home. The nearest mountain road to me is 250 miles, and I wouldn’t dare try to get there and ride it in my condition. I would end up crashing from exhaustion. So I have my little piece of heaven--some well known back roads and an empty parking lot. I am under no delusions that I am going to be a professional (or even amateur) motorcycle racer. And I certainly don’t need to read an article that tells me I’m smart enough to learn how to do things on my own. I learned that a long time ago.
So that’s my “excuse” as you call it. I am really glad that you and the other people on this board can ride as much as you want, and I am envious. As for me, I’ll keep riding as long as I can take it, even if it’s only riding around in my housing addition. And when I get too crippled to ride, I’ll have a super go-kart made out of the Gixxer 1000 engine like this guy in this video:
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=E2B6EE8B-BE2E-41DD-BC3B-166A7EADAC3A&p=1
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casey
Enthusiast
| Posts: 470
| Joined: 09/05
Posted: 10/17/05
11:16 PM
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Thank you for sharing Zyglob. I understand you a little bit better now, although I still disagree with you.
I'll pray for you and my family will do the same.
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