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Just Gettin Started...
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PorkPoney
New User
| Posts: 1
| Joined: 08/05
Posted: 08/23/05
02:28 PM
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Good day, folks. My name's nate. I'm 19 with a little bit of riding experience, though, not really enough to count for much. I'm looking to get a bike pretty soon and would like a little advice. My experience is very slim. I spent about a month, maybe 3 or 4 weeks behind the bars of a yamaha virago 535. I learned all my basics on that and can get through traffic and most situations that I was able to encounter on that with little effort. It's a good riding bike, though it seems sort of top heavy. My second lot of experience is with a honda vtx 1300R. Not a small bike. This bike scares me, because, A, it's new (and my fathers.) B it's got a lot of power down low and can be a little jumpy, and C, well, 700lbs of bike is hard to muscle around a standard neighborhood two lane road. However, after a little practice I got fairly comfortable on the bike and realized how ridiculously stable and competent it was. I assume my initial fears were an issue of not trusting the bike. Anyways, I'm not really interested in a cruiser at this point (though I hope to have at least a couple bikes one day) and would like to get something of my own to get good on. I REALLY enjoy riding (alot more than I thought I would) and have been trying to find the perfect "starter" for quite some time. I'm a honda fan and one bike in their lineup completely sticks out to me. That bike is the 599. I've sat on countless bikes in showrooms and garages and I can't say I've ever sat on a more comfortable bike, cruiser or otherwise. The bike just fits. I am a short (5'7") heavy (190lbs) build so the relatively low seat height (29" I think...?) works wonders. I like the looks of the bike better than it's competitors (the sv and otherwise) And I like that the bike's power is tailored for street use. However, the bikes are becoming increasingly harder to come by and when you do, they aren't often that cheap. Honda still produces the 919 and there are ALOT of things about that bike that steal my eye over the 599. The only problem is, I'm now talking about a liter/street fighter as a first bike and that seems like way too much to handle. Will the 919 behave if I ask nicely, or should I put it completely out of the picture? The only noticeable difference is the power. The bike is only like 27lbs heavier and the seat height is just about as low. Anyways, I don't know totally what to do, so I'd appreciate any advice or otherwise, and again, I would like to stay with the red team for now. Sorry about the book here, lol, I hate having to play forum tag, so I usually throw out as much info as I can.
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wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 08/23/05
03:47 PM
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The 599 would be an excellent choice as a starter bike; I would shy away from the 919, as its power would be a bit much for a beginning rider.
The reason the 599 is "getting harder to come by" is because it was dropped from the '05 Honda lineup due to a backlog of warehouse stock. However, the word is that the 599 will return for '06, so you won't be left out if you can't afford it just yet.
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TEvo
Enthusiast
| Posts: 322
| Joined: 10/02
Posted: 08/23/05
04:52 PM
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Backlog of warehouse stock? Weird.
I thought the reason the 599 went away for `05 in North America was because of it's uncompetitive pricing and the attitude towards un-faired bikes in this country- outside of cruzers, that is. 
An FZ6 is a more versatile bike, imho.
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wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 08/23/05
04:57 PM
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Quote:
I thought the reason the 599 went away for `05 in North America was because of it's uncompetitive pricing and the attitude towards un-faired bikes in this country...
...thus leading to the backlog of warehouse stock...
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An FZ6 is a more versatile bike, imho.
Not in mine. Characteristics like abrupt throttle response, midrange weak motor, and flaccid suspension in the FZ6 make the 599 a more fun bike to ride, IMHO. If it wasn't for Honda's greed, I'd say it's the better buy hands down.
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Posted: 08/24/05
05:54 AM
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I agree with wheelspin, on all accounts. The 599, excellent choice. The 919, too much. FZ6 throttle response is jumpy. Also consider SV650 if you can't find your 599.
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TEvo
Enthusiast
| Posts: 322
| Joined: 10/02
Posted: 08/24/05
06:04 AM
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Okay, that makes sense. But I've only seen a single 599 at dealerships. Perhaps the dealers don't think they can sell so they haven't bought too many of them...
I don' think the throttle response is seriously out of whack on the FZ6. "Flaccid" suspension is pretty par for the course for these "budget" bikes. The small fairing makes for better long distance performance.
Regardless, neither are my cup of tea since I like twins. If I were in the market, I'd rather have something with more attitude like a Speed Four. Since they are discontinued, leftover `04s and `05s can be had at firesale prices.
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wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 08/24/05
09:42 AM
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Quote:
I don' think the throttle response is seriously out of whack on the FZ6. "Flaccid" suspension is pretty par for the course for these "budget" bikes. The small fairing makes for better long distance performance.
Compared to the 599's throttle response it is. Same for the suspension; actually, the 599's suspension is very well sorted, easily handling a very spirited ride in the canyons that had the FZ6 wallowing and pitching despite attempts to adjust it. I was very surprised at how well the 599 worked.
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If I were in the market, I'd rather have something with more attitude like a Speed Four. Since they are discontinued, leftover `04s and `05s can be had at firesale prices.
I've ridden those too, and the term "flaccid" can definitely be used in describing the engine's powerband and suspension. I guess there's a reason they were discontinued...
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TEvo
Enthusiast
| Posts: 322
| Joined: 10/02
Posted: 08/24/05
09:42 PM
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I guess these bikes just don't meet your high standards. 
I always thought the Speed Four's suspension was the best of the bunch when talking about "budget" naked or half-faired 600s. It's the same legs off the TT600 (which was about equivalent to the F4i).
Triumph is getting out of the inline-four business. Any future middle-weight Speed will be a triple. Probably of 675cc displacement if the rumor mill is to be believed.
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wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 08/26/05
05:51 PM
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Quote:
I always thought the Speed Four's suspension was the best of the bunch when talking about "budget" naked or half-faired 600s. It's the same legs off the TT600 (which was about equivalent to the F4i).
Um..."about equivalent to the F4i" is a bit of a stretch. That's why I was so impressed with the 599's suspension; it was better than all the other "fully adjustable" setups, despite being "budget" suspension.
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Triumph is getting out of the inline-four business. Any future middle-weight Speed will be a triple. Probably of 675cc displacement if the rumor mill is to be believed.
Hey, if you can't beat'em...cheat'em.
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TEvo
Enthusiast
| Posts: 322
| Joined: 10/02
Posted: 08/29/05
06:56 PM
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The test on Motorcyclist magazine didn't think it too much of a stretch the Speed Four has probably the best suspension of the "budget" bikes.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/roadtests/speedfour600/index.html
The new middleweight triple isn't going to be racing in any 600 supersport classes, so... why not. Doesn't Kawasaki have a "cheater" 600, too?
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wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 08/29/05
10:22 PM
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Quote:
The test on Motorcyclist magazine didn't think it too much of a stretch the Speed Four has probably the best suspension of the "budget" bikes.
Um, sorry, I don't give too much credence to Motorcyclist "tests". And a two-sentence blurb of "clever" prose doesn't exactly give the impression that they actually tested the bikes together...
And uh, where's the statement where they felt that the suspension was the "equal" of the Honda F4i?
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The new middleweight triple isn't going to be racing in any 600 supersport classes, so... why not. Doesn't Kawasaki have a "cheater" 600, too?
Sure, but at least Kawasaki is still making a "600" (or, for that matter, a four-cylinder)...and come to think of it, that 600 just so happens to be well on its way to an AMA Supersport championship...
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TEvo
Enthusiast
| Posts: 322
| Joined: 10/02
Posted: 08/29/05
10:31 PM
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With probably the best factory riders outside of the Superbike class in Tommy and Roger Lee... sure, class championship should be an obtainable goal.
I would point you to the TT600 review from Motorcyclist (of which the Speed Four shares it's suspension) but since you don't give much "credence" to the editors of that magazine, I'll save the trouble of cutting and pasting the link.
Ummm... I guess that leaves us with opinions and their worth at face value. 
Cheers.
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wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 08/29/05
10:55 PM
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With probably the best factory riders outside of the Superbike class in Tommy and Roger Lee... sure, class championship should be an obtainable goal.
Really? I think that Ben Spies (second in the Superbike championship), Jamie Hacking, Jason DiSalvo, et al would take issue with that statement. And I'd say that winning 6 out of 9 races so far this season in a class as competitive as Supersport (nevermind the way they blew past everyone on the Daytona banking as if everyone else was riding in 5th gear) qualifies as a successful "600" regardless of rider talent...
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I would point you to the TT600 review from Motorcyclist (of which the Speed Four shares it's suspension) but since you don't give much "credence" to the editors of that magazine, I'll save the trouble of cutting and pasting the link.
Thanx. Did they even test the Speed Four against the other budget bikes? Or an F4i for that matter?
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TEvo
Enthusiast
| Posts: 322
| Joined: 10/02
Posted: 08/30/05
05:30 AM
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Really. Outside Superbike class. Spies is riding in Superbike. Hacking can't stay healthy and Disalvo is the best rider for Yamaha but I don't think he's quite the rider the Hayden brothers are.
Yeah, 6 of 9 races. In the most competitive class in AMA. Good job for the boys from Owensboro.
Sure thing man.
Yep, if I recall they did test the S4 with the other budget blaster sport standards like the 599. They did not include it in the main comparison of 599 v. FZ6 v. SV650 because it has clip-ons and rearsets.
If you actually bothered to read it you'll see the S4 review ends with this.
"In truth, had the S4 more standardlike ergonomics—lower pegs, a Speed Triple-style tubular bar—we probably would have put it back into the main comparison, where we're absolutely certain it would have been the victor."
Cheers.
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wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 08/30/05
09:48 AM
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Quote:
Really. Outside Superbike class. Spies is riding in Superbike. Hacking can't stay healthy and Disalvo is the best rider for Yamaha but I don't think he's quite the rider the Hayden brothers are.
Ouch. Well, I'll leave the pitlane pundit judgements to you. I do notice that Tommy and Roger Lee were never this dominant (especially in class like Supersport) before they started riding the 6RR. Also notable that a semi-privateer racer like Ben Attard can podium on the bike, while no other rider other than a factory pilot on another brand can. Even Tommy himself said that at Daytona "it was nice to be on the fastest bike for once." Good for him and Roger Lee, however.
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Yep, if I recall they did test the S4 with the other budget blaster sport standards like the 599. They did not include it in the main comparison of 599 v. FZ6 v. SV650 because it has clip-ons and rearsets.
If you actually bothered to read it you'll see the S4 review ends with this.
"In truth, had the S4 more standardlike ergonomics—lower pegs, a Speed Triple-style tubular bar—we probably would have put it back into the main comparison, where we're absolutely certain it would have been the victor."
Eh, my bad. Apologies for not reading the "test".
I do find it a bit lame that they excluded it from the comparison just because it didn't have "standard-like" ergonomics. They didn't seem overly-"racey" to me.
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