|
|
Item Posts
Sort Order
|
|
|
|
Tires...can they keep up?
|
mikoste
New User
| Posts: 47
| Joined: 06/04
Posted: 07/04/05 10:31 AM
|
|
It seems like the latest "fad" in motorsport is tire failures. Machines are eclipsing the development of tires, and it shows every race weekend it seems. I guess the real question is can the tire manufacturers catch-up. Watching F-1 @ Indy was amazing, not in a good way, more like a sad way, but telling nonetheless. They (tire manufact's.) have been taking it on the chin in both 2-wheel and 4-wheel competition (not to mention consumer) over the past few years. I can only hope that it's a matter of time before the main tire companies step-up with a solution, otherwise they comprimise the entire motorsport community, which in turn limits progress across the board. SM
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 07/04/05 10:04 PM
|
|
As far as motorcycles, a change in format could be intro-
duced-similar to dirt track. 5 lap sprints with a 10 to
15 lap final at least for Superbikes and premier class in
Moto GP. Another option would be to develope more Road Amer-
ica type tracks; reduceing the time the big bikes are on the
edge of the tire. The only other option is to reduce the
power out-put, at least and until that magic compound is
developed.
|
|
|
|
TEvo
Enthusiast
| Posts: 322
| Joined: 10/02
Posted: 07/05/05 07:48 AM
|
|
I dunno. There doesn't seem to have been been any drastic failures of motorcycle roadracing tires since the Daytona failures and the Nakano crash at Mugello last year, have there?
I think watching the Misano WSB race was actually more fun *because* of the tire degradation over the course of the race. Watching the throttle control of guys like Vermuelen, Haga and company was great fun. Especially in Race 2 where Haga repeatedly lit up his tire.
So long as the tire doesn't explode or suffer catastrophic failure, I think it's a good separator of the men from the boys at the top tiers of roadracing.
And real motorsports don't belong on the banking of ovals- in the itnsho (in the not so humble opinion) of this armchair racer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 07/05/05 08:59 AM
|
|
There will always be times when the tire manufacturers make a mistake, and the only time you can truly say that they've caught up to machine development is when racers can go WFO the entire race and say that they never lost traction once-- which you know will never happen. But as far as "eclipsing the development of tires", you're overlooking the fact that if that were true, then you'd see a rash of tire failures over the course of several races, or even a season. And then the season would practically shut down. The Daytona winter test blowouts were the result of a particular track's demands on tires; tires are built especially for Daytona, and can't be used anywhere else. Mladin's frightening blowout at Road Atlanta was another mistake by Dunlop; so was Nakano's accident at Mugello (by Bridgestone). But immediately afterward, there was a new generation of tires that addressed the problems, and no more failures occurred. Don't underestimate the tire companies' technological muscle; they've come a long way since the days of yore when they were nothing more than rim protectors.
The F1 Indy debacle was the result of a rare mistake by Michelin, in addition to the F1 teams and the politics of FIA/FOCA/Ecclestone. They could have tested there earlier in the year, but only a couple of bottom-rung teams decided to participate; all the others spent their time testing at other tracks.
|
|
|
|
mikoste
New User
| Posts: 47
| Joined: 06/04
Posted: 07/05/05 10:07 AM
|
|
Wheelspin, I can appreciate everything you've had to say. Since I started racing 20 years ago tires have come a long way, longer than I could've ever imagined. The fact is that over the past few years there have been numerous reports of tire failures 2 and 4 wheel(racing/consumer). High publicity has only magnified the problems that tire manufacturers have had whilst trying to keep up with ever-increasing technology. We all make mistakes, tire companies included, the fact is that these mistakes must be rare...more rare than in recent years, as you know there's little room for error. The pilot should always be confident in his or her equipment, that's the bottom line. SM
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 07/06/05 04:30 AM
|
|
I agree with Tevo. When the tire starts to wear and racers like Rossi, Mladin, Corser, etc lite up the rear and have the motorcycle sliding all over the track, it separates the truely skilled from the good riders. Plus you cannot deny that smoke coming from the rear at those speeds is cool. If the tires start exploding or coming apart then I will start to worry...for motorcycle racing that is.
|
|
|
|
mikoste
New User
| Posts: 47
| Joined: 06/04
Posted: 07/06/05 09:11 AM
|
|
Failure vs. wear...Big difference.
|
|
|
|
wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 07/06/05 08:28 PM
|
|
Quote:
I think watching the Misano WSB race was actually more fun *because* of the tire degradation over the course of the race. Watching the throttle control of guys like Vermuelen, Haga and company was great fun. Especially in Race 2 where Haga repeatedly lit up his tire.
So long as the tire doesn't explode or suffer catastrophic failure, I think it's a good separator of the men from the boys at the top tiers of roadracing.
While I agree that sliding tires separates the truly skilled from the also-rans, what I don't like are lap times that are almost two seconds a lap slower than the previous "non-control tire" season. And in my opinion, it hasn't really made the racing any closer; you still get the riders who have their act together taking off and running away with the race, and the field separating somewhat. There was plenty of close racing before WSB became the Ducati Cup in '03-'04. I think that quicker lap times is what really separates the greats from the also-rans.
|
|
|
|
TEvo
Enthusiast
| Posts: 322
| Joined: 10/02
Posted: 07/06/05 09:09 PM
|
|
Quote:
I think that quicker lap times is what really separates the greats from the also-rans.
So what does that make the riders who turn the fastest laps on the spec tire? A lesser rider? Or the rider who could have done better if only they had access to the same tires as the official factory riders? 
The spec-tire has leveled out the playing field slightly and where you once had close racing between Honda and Ducati with two, maybe 3 riders at the front the racing now tends to have a freight train of five or maybe more in or still in contact with the lead group.
It's not perfect but seeing the satellite and privateer teams running up there has made for more varied and often closer racing.
|
|
|
|
wheelspin
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 07/06/05 11:27 PM
|
|
Quote:
So what does that make the riders who turn the fastest laps on the spec tire? A lesser rider?
Nope, because those riders are basically the same ones who will turn the quick laps on better tires. But to go that one step further and cut even quicker laps truly separates the riders who can spin the tires (which is, well, literally the whole field...you just see the front guys doing it because the cameras are focusing on them), and those who can set up their bike so that they can actually drive forward while doing it.
Quote:
Or the rider who could have done better if only they had access to the same tires as the official factory riders? 
How do you get to be a factory rider and get access to those "special" tires? You either outride them or finish close enough to them (and ahead of all the others with the "regular" tires) that the manufacturers take notice.
Quote:
The spec-tire has leveled out the playing field slightly and where you once had close racing between Honda and Ducati with two, maybe 3 riders at the front the racing now tends to have a freight train of five or maybe more in or still in contact with the lead group. It's not perfect but seeing the satellite and privateer teams running up there has made for more varied and often closer racing.
Besides the fact that I've yet to see a WSB race this year where "five or maybe more are still in contact with the lead group" (take the Misano race; Laconi and Corser were gone, with the rest over three seconds behind), it's just that: other than Ducati, the rest of the teams are satellite/privateer squads. With no factory works machinery, the playing field is already leveled. The Ducatis aren't running away like they used to for the same reason Hodgson and Bostrom can't run away over here-- giving the four-cylinders equal footing with the twins has erased their former advantage. You're right though; no setup is perfect. But I'd rather see direct competition between all manufacturers because it advances the state of the sport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|